Sexism in gaming & A review in comic form: "How it feels to be a girl playing Sly Cooper 4"

[brendala]

Very few male Sly fans seem to understand why this game bothers me. This comic was my attempt to illustrate it in a way they might understand:



Here's the DA link.

I swear, it felt like this game was TRYING to make female players uncomfortable. The original Sly trilogy treated the two female leads very well. But this game...

--featured multiple scenes where Carmelita is sexually degraded against her will to provide fan-service for the player (and in one of those instances, HER "FRIENDS" ARE THE ONES DOING IT TO HER)! Also, there's one scene where the villain taunts Sly by tying her up and groping her in front of him while she lies on the floor begging Sly to save her.
...and keep in mind, Carmelita was a BADASS, respected cop in the original trilogy who was clearly a more competent fighter than her male love interest. Now she's just a piece of spank material who exists to get kidnapped and shake her ass for coins (no seriously, there's a mini-game in Sly 4 where you have to make her shake her ass for coins via PS3 motion controls!!! >_< ).

--featured a boss battle that had one of the "heroes" beat his diminutive girlfriend unconscious while laughing about how much she sucks at evading his punches. And this is justified by the narrative because "the bitch had it coming"

--it characterized Penelope as being incapable of doing ANYTHING without a man helping her. FYI, in the third Sly Cooper game, she managed to amass a fortune, purchase a small town, and master piloting and RC devices all alone when she was still a TEENAGER!
Also, while the third Sly game presented her as being her boyfriend's intellectual equal (the only difference between them being that she's a specialist and he's a jack-of-all-trades), the forth game makes it clear that she's WAY dumber than him!

--It kept the male character designs pretty much the same. But it did THIS to the two leading females:


What is that zipper even for!? Did she get that skirt from Tetsuya Nomura!?!?



===

So, if any of you guys are getting sick of my recent Sly Cooper spamming. Just keep all those facts in mind and try to be patient with me.

Comments

[earthstar-moon.livejournal.com]

After playing all three games, I can totally understand your rage and now I'm mad too. (It's really got me geared up to do more with the AU idea. XP)

And you know, honestly, even if you ignore the unneeded female fanservice her (seriously, did no one think it was a bad idea to have her dance for coins?) the story lines of Penelope and Carmelita don't match up with what you see in the first three games.

It really makes no sense for Penelope to turn evil at all, given with how much she cared for Bently in Sly 3. (I'm still amazed that within ten minutes Stu and I came up with a better reason for her to turn evil then what Sanzaru thought of.)

And Carmelita has proven she's a professional cop, you would think she would put her anger aside to focus on the problem at hand. Also, her flirting with Sly's ancestors? Even if she was angry at Sly, how is flirting with thieves from the past any different than flirting with Sly who is also a thief? Double standards much? @_@

[brendala.livejournal.com]

Yeah. I had to quit the game for a few days after the Penelope boss fight because the domestic violence overtones were just THAT strong and unsettling. Basically, Bentley tries to talk to her for a minute, she says "fuck off", and he proceeds to punch her with a mech suit until she passes out. And while he's beating her up he's cracking jokes, taunts, and pop culture references!


Also, keep in mind that the boss fight happens right after she's revealed to be a traitor. And the only time you see her before that is in a flashback where she and Bentley are happily working together in their lab. There's ZERO proper build up or foreshadowing before "The Twist" happens. So the audience (and the characters) get virtually no time to process this change before it's time to grab the controller and have her boyfriend beat her unconscious. And Sly and Bentley's conversation after the fight is basically....
--Sly: Wow, dude! I'm sorry your girlfriend turned out to be such a raging bitch!
--Bentley: No, I'M sorry, Sly! I was wrong to express pain and sorrow upon learning that the woman I loved had betrayed me. I should not have hesitated to help you guys formulate a plan to use violence to take her down. I forgot that the most important thing in life is "Bros before hos". I will NEVER forget this fact again!
--Sly: [via story narration to the player] Gee whiz! Bentley sure has grown strong over the years! He managed to overcome the psychological trauma he incurred after being crippled by Clockwerk by beating his bitch girlfriend in a fist-fight!! I am so proud of him for beating a tiny woman unconscious!!!

....I'm not kidding. The story actually flat out says that Bentley overcame "his demons" by beating the shit out of Penelope. And Sly LITERALLY says he's "PROUD of Bentley" for doing it!! Yes, the same Sly who showed compassion to The Contessa and The Panda King had none to spare for a woman he had previously shared a significant friendship with!!!!


Normally, I'd say "go to youtube if you don't believe me". But seeing that scene immediately after beating Sly 3 for the first time might make you simultaneously cry, vomit, and burn your bras. :(

[earthstar-moon.livejournal.com]

By the way, For the Sly 4 AU idea, I was wondering are any of the Sly 4 villains worth trying to salvage for our version or should we just come up with completely new villains?

Also, Stu and I were plotting and we got an evil idea for Sly's viking ancestor. We figured we need to have Sly see one of his ancestors get killed by Clockwreck to start the plot of him deciding to just get rid of him altogether which cause the Inspector Cooper AU timeline.

So, the guys go and find the viking ancestor who is married and has like ten kids. He's one of the few ancestors that instantly believe Sly and starts to act very fatherly to Sly.

Viking: So, you are grandson?
Sly: Well, several times great grandson, but yes.
Viking: AH! Then you are family! *ropes Sly into a bearhug*

Thus, he and Sly get a little bonding time, but then during the heist/battle of the level Clockwreck attacks and kills the viking ancestor who give some comforting parting words to Sly before he dies. Thus, this begins Sly wondering if perhaps he should go back and get rid or Clockwreck altogether.

Like I said, it's evil, but it would be fun and fitting.

[brendala.livejournal.com]

By the way, For the Sly 4 AU idea, I was wondering are any of the Sly 4 villains worth trying to salvage for our version or should we just come up with completely new villains?

All the Sly 4 villains were lame. Two of them had some redeeming qualities (Grizz was funny and Miss Decibel COULD have been a great tragic character if Sanzaru hadn't spent so much time reminding the audience that she's a "gross fat chick" :P), but not enough to be worth salvaging.
However, I've been wondering if La Paradox could be worked into a "Severus Snape" type of character for our AU. So, instead of wanting to wipe out the Coopers because Sly's dad screwed over his dad (that's his motivation in Sly 4), he wants to wipe them out because he had a thing for Sly's mother and blames the Cooper lifestyle for getting her killed.

I was thinking that Sly would defeat La Paradox toward the end of the game. But when the time comes to fix what La Paradox screwed around with (mainly, Penelope's history with the gang and Clockwerk's defeat), Sly instead opts to go back to the day his parents were murdered and just fix that. He assumes that everyone else would simply be better off if he changed history so that he lived with his parents and never dragged his friends or Carmelita into his life. But then Sly 5 proves him wrong....


Also, Stu and I were plotting and we got an evil idea for Sly's viking ancestor. We figured we need to have Sly see one of his ancestors get killed by Clockwreck to start the plot of him deciding to just get rid of him altogether which cause the Inspector Cooper AU timeline.


I love that idea! I can't remember if that ancestor ever got a name. But it'll be fun to create that back story.

Also, I envision a scene where Bentley reminds Sly that Viking-Cooper's death was inevitable and Sly snaps at him for being insensitive. And his grief combined with his anger/frustraion at Bentley and the reminder that most of his ancestors probably died this way helps fuel the decision to choose his parents over his current friends/brothers.

[theidolhands.livejournal.com]

I thoroughly enjoyed reading this. Go you. Good use of art skills on your part.

I mean, fair is fair, if one gender gets smexy make-overs, so should the others.

[brendala.livejournal.com]

Thank you!

[earthstar-moon.livejournal.com]

For the Paradox villain, Stu and I were actually thinking the villain could be the sister of Sly's mother (we're calling her Lucinda, don't ask me which, the name just came to me) and same reason she wants to wipe out the clan since Sly's mother was killed.

Basically, the idea was that Sly had heard of having an aunt but he never met her cause at the time his mother and her weren't on speaking terms. (She didn't approve the marriage between Sly's parents) and thus when she dies decides to try to wipe out the whole clan together.

Stu also got the idea that Lucinda did consider going and taking in Sly, but didn't because she saw him during the steal the cookies business and realize "He's always so much like he's father."

Also, we're thinking she's a librarian who can remember every book she's read. Thus, that's why it takes her longer to create a time machine than Bently, but she does so by reading every single science on time travel she can find. XD

[brendala.livejournal.com]

Having the villain be Sly's aunt is the idea I liked best (I'm pretty sure you suggested it before). Mainly because La Paradox was super lame and I'd rather just leave him out than re-work him.
However, since this project is just for fun, I might just scribble both ideas and just put them out there for the hell of it. XD


As for Sly's maternal family, I figure they're France natives (mainly because Sly 1 and 2 start out in France and Sly seems to consider it "home").
In addition to being put off by the cookie thievery, I also think a big reason Aunt Lucinda (I like the name, too :)) shunned Sly was because he resembled his father and didn't look one bit like his mom. So all she saw when she looked at Sly was the smarmy bastard who dragged her sister into a shady lifestyle that got her killed.

Speaking of Sly's mom....do you have any ideas about what kind of animals they'd be? I draw a total blank every time I try to design them. ^_^;

[earthstar-moon.livejournal.com]

Oh good, I'm glad you liked the name too. I don't know why but Lucinda seems to fit. And I do like your second big reason for why she didn't take Sly in. It would make sense.

You know what, we could keep Paradox around and he could be one of Lucinda's hechman/minions and reveal that he did have a crush on Sly's mother too, which is one of the reasons he decided to join Lucinda. Or just toss the guy, either works for me.

Speaking of Sly's mom....do you have any ideas about what kind of animals they'd be? I draw a total blank every time I try to design them. ^_^;

I'm glad I read this before I went to work, gave me something to ponder on while the store was dead and I was bored.

I think since Sly and his dad are raccoons, Sly's mom and Lucinda should also be tree climbing animals. Why should Sly only inherit climbing skills from his dad? ^_~

I'm thinking either squirrel or red panda for Sly's mom, but I'm leaning towards squirrel. Just imagine the busy tail she would have. XD

[brendala.livejournal.com]

I still don't know if we should bother coming up with names for Sly's parents or just leave them as "Mom&Dad" because it's funny. LOL

I like the squirrel idea! It makes sense and it's an animal type the series hasn't used yet (at least as far as I know).

[earthstar-moon.livejournal.com]

Stu had said he read somewhere that Sly's dad name was Connor, but might be the fandom name for him. Granted, just calling them "Mom and Dad" would be funny.

Yeah, I think that was the other reason squirrel appealed to me since they haven't appeared in the Sly series yet. Also, meant to add that I still like the idea that Sly's mom worked in a museum. That makes total sense for how Sly's parents met.

[brendala.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty sure "Connor Cooper" is a fandom name. I've never seen it in anything official.

At one point, I liked the idea of calling Daddy-Cooper "Dan" or "D.B" (after the famous thief DB Cooper). But naming him after a real person might be kinda weird.
I also like a fancy french name for his mother (something like Estelle or Dominique or something). But I never really put much effort into picking one.

[brendala.livejournal.com]

I finally got around to drawing some sketches of Mama & Daddy Cooper and Lucinda! What do you think?

Mama and Daddy Cooper




I wanted to give her a completely different physique than the Coopers (ie short, chubby, bright/lighter colors, etc). I figure it would help to emphasize how Lucinda sees Sly as just another member of the sleazy Cooper family and not as her nephew.


Lucinda



I thinking I should go with a more dowdy/conservative outfit (like the one on the bottom). The one on the far right might be a bit too stereotypical "slutty librarian Halloween costume" for what we're going for. XD

I'm not sure if she should reconcile with Sly or not before Sly decides to stop his parents' murder. But I thought maybe preventing the murder would lead to Lucinda dying with her sister in the altered timeline. Mainly because she'd want to be with her 24/7 after getting a second chance to reconcile; so she'd be there when Mama Cooper dies later on.
The only thing I don't like about this idea is that having both sisters die is kinda fridgy and the intention of this story was to undo the fridgy nature of Sly 4. But I guess we can justify it by not having either of them shake their asses for coins before they die? LOL

I also wrote up a basic outline (please forgive the crappy handwriting. I wrote it while on the phone at work)





Also, here's more scribbles of AU Carmelita and Penelope. Because I like them the best! :)

[earthstar-moon.livejournal.com]

EEEEE! Mommy Cooper looks so cute, I love the design for her and Lucinda. Mommy Cooper looks so cuddly and sweet.

Stu and I still like the idea that what causes the time paradox was not stopping his parents murder but at the end of the game as they're going through time portals, Sly sees Clockwork and decides to just go and get rid of him. (Remember, Sly had to see his ancestor to get killed too.) This causes a severe time paradox, however, in this timeline Sly mom still dies.

With that said, Stu just suggested a great idea for Lucinda in Sly 5. After his mother dies and Sly has just had it with the thieving lifestyle, Sly goes to live with Lucinda (who's thrilled he hates the Cooper legacy as much as she does.) With that said, I like the idea that Sly's mom die because of Doctor M. Would give Inspector Cooper good reason to hate all criminals.

Also, I'm thinking that without Sly's mom around, Papa Cooper becomes a more evil criminal. I'm thinking Mommy Cooper had brought out the gentler/nicer side of him.

[brendala.livejournal.com]

With that said, Stu just suggested a great idea for Lucinda in Sly 5. After his mother dies and Sly has just had it with the thieving lifestyle, Sly goes to live with Lucinda (who's thrilled he hates the Cooper legacy as much as she does.)

I love this idea. It's way more interesting (not to mention WAY less fridgy) than just having Lucinda stop being evil and die in the alternate timeline.


Also, I'm thinking that without Sly's mom around, Papa Cooper becomes a more evil criminal. I'm thinking Mommy Cooper had brought out the gentler/nicer side of him.

I agree. It actually fits in with the head-canon I've always had for Daddy-Cooper....

I don't know about you, but when I played the third game, I got the impression that Sly's dad was a bit of a jerk (at least toward the people he hired to help him with heists). And that Doctor M probably had some legitimate reasons to be pissed at Daddy-Cooper and feel entitled to some of his wealth. Especially since one scene has Sly admit that the big difference between him and his Dad is that his Dad didn't value/love his comrades the way Sly does with Murray & Bentley.
Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I always saw that scene as Sly realizing that his father wasn't the saint that he remembered him to be. And that his family legacy of committing epic crimes had a high price that he may not be willing to pay anymore.

So, yeah, I could see his jerky side being tempered by his wife only to re-emerge when she gets killed (and possibly get worse when his only child rebels against him)


Anyhoo, MORE DRAWINGS!!!!!!

I felt like drawing more Lucinda and Mommy&Daddy Cooper scenes

And I also drew Stu's idea for the ending because I thought it would look cute!

[earthstar-moon.livejournal.com]

He he, I feel like Papa Cooper should be singing "A Whole New World" to Sly's mom there. XD Also, child Sly and Lucinda is really cute.

I love this idea. It's way more interesting (not to mention WAY less fridgy) than just having Lucinda stop being evil and die in the alternate timeline.

More sense for story too I think. Not only does it explain how Sly took care of himself after leaving Papa, but also that Lucinda fueled Sly's hatred of criminals for Inspector Cooper to exist.

I don't know about you, but when I played the third game, I got the impression that Sly's dad was a bit of a jerk (

That's the expression Stu and I got too (we really need to get around writing that review.) My theory is that he was a major jerk, but after getting married with Sly's mom and had Sly he toned his actions a bit. However, you do get the feeling that Sly is realizing his father, as you said, was not the saint he remembered him to be.

[brendala.livejournal.com]

This is just a rough outline, but I came up with an alternate Sly 4 opening that allows for friction between Carmelita and Sly (which would make his decision to erase their history together by saving his parents more understandable) without derailing his character by having him act all happy about being a thief again. And I hope it succeeds in giving Carmelita an understandable reason to be somewhat bitchy toward a guy that she's supposedly in a long-term committed relationship with. ESPECIALLY since being associated with Sly's criminal activity was the reason Neyla was able to royally screw her over in Sly 2.




Also, in my head-canon, she saw through the amnesia ruse pretty quick and called him out on it within weeks of the Sly 3 ending. So the lameness of a GODDAM DETECTIVE swallowing that bullshit has no part in our little AU!

[earthstar-moon.livejournal.com]

Stu's away for a few days, but I'll show him this when he gets back.

And I think this REALLY fits. It makes way more sense why Carmelita would annoyed/angry at Sly rather than the whole "You LIED TO ME!" plot they did in Sly 4.

And, as you said, it would start the downfall of Sly thinking he should just go and change history for everyone's sake. I approve! ^_^ (And when you think of my pirate scenario for later, this would just add to that.)

[brendala.livejournal.com]

The "YOU LIED TO ME" thing in Sly 4 was just so lame. One cutscene actually had Carmelita tell the audience (and I'm paraphrasing here):
"I suppose part of me kinda sorta knew he was lying about the amnesia. But I didn't confront him about it because I wanted to believe that my love had ~*changed him*~. So I went along with his bullshit and never called him out on anything until I caught him in the act of robbing a museum."


No really. Sly 4 had Carmelita straight up say that she dated Sly for years in the hopes of magically changing his ways with her love. She sounded like a stupid teenager. It made me gag.

[earthstar-moon.livejournal.com]

I actually have seen that clip and I just had to roll my eyes. From the clips I've seen of Sly 4 on youtube, is it just me or does it feel like that Snazaru basically want to show that "No, it was wrong for Sly to give up his thieving ways for Carmelita. He should stay a thief and have Carmelita just accept that." @_@

That whole bit just feels like a slap to the face for the ending of Sly 3. I really got the sense that Sly was just tired of having a thieving life. Also, I'm betting he isn't the first in his family to feel like that. In the vaults there are WIDE gaps between ancestors, so I'm wondering if only family members that were able to become full fledged Master Thieves could enter the vault and the ones that didn't were either really good thieves or maybe just decided to not be a thief.

Also, I'm with you and believe Carmelita figured out the whole amnesia thing within a couple of weeks. However, if you go by Sly 4's story and it did take her a long time to figure that out, it should be pointed out that Carmelita did lie to Sly when she honestly thought Sly couldn't remember. By Sly 4's plot, she's not exactly innocent in this either.

[brendala.livejournal.com]

is it just me or does it feel like that Snazaru basically want to show that "No, it was wrong for Sly to give up his thieving ways for Carmelita. He should stay a thief and have Carmelita just accept that." @_@

It's not just you.
I'm planning to write up comics based on my old head-canons as therapy to recover from the-game-that-shall-not-be-named.
Personally, I always figured that the characters went on to lead relatively normal lives. And that Carmelita and Sly eventually reached a compromise where they could socialize with his old gang and she wouldn't arrest them unless they committed a crime at some point AFTER the Doctor M incident.
.....And Carmelita and Penelope would bond over their odd choices in romantic partners. XD



I don't know about you, but one of the things I REALLY liked about Sly 3's ending was the way it ended with the MALE MAIN CHARACTER making the big sacrifices for love instead of the female love interest he was pursuing. Lately, I see so many Sly fans going "I hope Carmelita joins the gang and becomes a thief" and I'm like...
"REALLY!? You think it would be cool if Carmelita gave up her life, career, good name, and deeply-felt morals for a boyfriend who, as of Sly 4, had been a MASSIVE DOUCHE to her? SERIOUSLY!?!?"

Also, as badass as Sly's family legacy is, it hasn't exactly done him many favors. Most of his family members suffered and/or died directly because their criminal lifestyle. And Sly himself witnessed the death of his parents and the permanent crippling of one of his best friends happen precisely BECAUSE of that legacy.
Master thievery may be "cool"; but it isn't conducive to a normal and/or peaceful life. And it clearly isn't something Carmelita wants any part of.

IMO, Sly didn't just give it all up for a shot at Carmelita. He gave it up because he wanted a normal/peaceful life for his friends. Murray and Bentley paid the biggest price for the defeat of Clockwerk (even though Clockwerk was the Cooper family's nemesis, not theirs). And I think Sly wanted to make it up to them by giving them a shot at carving out their OWN legacies outside of his shadow. And the money he left behind allowed them all to start over and pursue their own paths in life. That aspect of the finale always gave me the warm fuzzies. And, IMO, his behavior in Sly 4 erases all that nobility and character development.


However, if you go by Sly 4's story and it did take her a long time to figure that out, it should be pointed out that Carmelita did lie to Sly when she honestly thought Sly couldn't remember. By Sly 4's plot, she's not exactly innocent in this either.

Yeah, that REALLY bothered me, too. Before Sly 4 happened, I always assumed that the "you're my partner" lie was something she did on an emotional impulse (he had just taken a bullet for her and she was likely relieved just to see him alive). And that the guilt she felt for lying (combined with her knowledge that he was likely faking it) eventually got the best of her and they both fessed up to each other and worked something out.
....BTW, this head-canon is gonna be a comic soon, too.

[earthstar-moon.livejournal.com]

I can't wait to see those comics. ^_~ I've been doing a few more Sly Coopers sketches, including a couple from the Inspector Cooper AU. ^_~

I don't know about you, but one of the things I REALLY liked about Sly 3's ending was the way it ended with the MALE MAIN CHARACTER making the big sacrifices for love instead of the female love interest he was pursuing.

I really did too and I think that's why the whole thing with Carmelita acting like an enrage teen and Sly's "itch to steal" REALLY bothered me.

If Sly 4 never happened, and the group were able to live normal lives, I honestly picture that when Sly and Carmelita have kids, Sly would be the stay at home dad while Carmelita would be the one earning the bacon.

[brendala.livejournal.com]

so I'm wondering if only family members that were able to become full fledged Master Thieves could enter the vault and the ones that didn't were either really good thieves or maybe just decided to not be a thief.

It would be interesting if he met some ancestors who either wanted nothing to do with the thief lifestyle or hated it altogether and wished the Cooper Clan would just stop breaking the damn law

[earthstar-moon.livejournal.com]

It would be really ironic if some had actually become cops/law enforcement as a result which would be a neat foreshadowing for the Inspector Cooper AU.

[brendala.livejournal.com]

NEW SLY AU STUFF!!

Sorry I've been totally neglecting this thing! Here's a new idea that came to me at work! Surprise, surprise, it's a Bentley/Penelope doodle:






My idea is that Bentley proposed to Penelope right before Lucinda screwed up the timeline and made it so Penelope never joined the gang (btw, I started drawing the proposal scene and hope to finish it soon!). So Bentley has to deal with the angst of having Penelope absolutely LOATHE him and also the humiliation of having his fiancee essentially choose Carmelita (a woman he never really liked) over him.

Basically, I can see Bentley trying hard to make her WANT to remember her past with him (or at least make this universe's Penelope warm up to him), but she's having none of it. Mainly because she knows Bentley as a cruel crime lord in her timeline. But partly because Bentley is just a socially awkward dork and keeps screwing up when he tries to court her. XD

And I also envision a scene where he takes Sly's cane and seriously considers just tapping her with it against her will because he doesn't think she'll come around and he gets sick of his constant failures to win her over.

[earthstar-moon.livejournal.com]

(Oh, no worries, we've been busy too. Beside, the idea of this is that we're doing this for fun right? That means taking our time with it. ^_~)

Also, I like this idea. It would be fitting if Penelope had just gotten engaged. Also, Bently considering of just using the cane would also be good since Sly would be doing pondering the same thing with Carmelita (especially when you consider the fact that the girls would probably remember that they were hit with a cane against their will once they got their memories back.)

[brendala.livejournal.com]

(Oh, no worries, we've been busy too. Beside, the idea of this is that we're doing this for fun right? That means taking our time with it. ^_~)

Also, I like this idea. It would be fitting if Penelope had just gotten engaged. Also, Bently considering of just using the cane would also be good since Sly would be doing pondering the same thing with Carmelita (especially when you consider the fact that the girls would probably remember that they were hit with a cane against their will once they got their memories back.)


I think not tapping them with the cane against their will is more of an honor thing on Sly's part. Even though the girls would probably not be angry once their "proper" memories are restored, Sly just can't bring himself to do it unless the girls are ok with it. Because OUR version of Sly will still, y'know, respect women and go out of his way to AVOID being an abusive douchebag toward them.

Also, I just realized that this could be a thing that Bentley and Sly fight about. Perhaps Sly is so horrified by what he becomes in AU-Land that he's determined to be UBER-chivalrous and honorable even if it means inconveniencing himself and making his mission more difficult.


Also, ANOTHER NEW DOODLE AND STORY IDEA!
This may become a comic later on. But I think this image works for now




Basically, my idea is that this conversation happens the night before Lucinda screws up the timeline and makes it so Penelope never became part of the team. And Sly feels tremendous shame and grief for not being able to stop this from happening. And the pain is magnified by the fact that Murray and Bentley don't remember her at all. And I'm thinking that this incident is a BIG factor (if not the main factor) in Sly deciding to save his parents instead of preserving the status quo.


Honestly, the reason I want to do this is because one of the bigger outrages in Sly 4 was the fact that none of the guys were all that concerned about Penelope disappearing under mysterious circumstances just as a new psycho declares war on "The Cooper Legacy". Sly showed no worry for her safety nor any guilt over the fact that something potentially horrible had happened to her because of her connection to him. And, considering the role she played in inspiring him to leave behind his legacy so he and his friends could have a shot at a normal life, that was just completely messed up.
...and I won't even go into his lack of emotion after her bullshit "betrayal plot twist" because then we'd be here all day! >_< 

Anyhoo, this conversation could also be a factor in why he'd rather work to regain Penelope's trust/friendship in the alternate timeline instead of taking the easy way out and just tapping her with his cane.

[earthstar-moon.livejournal.com]

*nodnod* That I totally agree with. It's just so bizarre in Sly 4 that the guys didn't care at ALL about what happened to Penelope despite the fact they did, you know BOND, in Sly 3.

I much prefer the idea that Penelope disappearing is one of the major reasons for Sly deciding to change the timeline and getting rid of clockwreck. The other I'm thinking, as I told you, is watching that one warrior ancestor Sly bonded with getting killed by Clockwreck. It would just build and makes sense for Sly to go "Screw this! I'm making things better for everyone". I'm thinking the last nail in the coffin would be Carmelia getting hurt because of clockwreck near the end of our 4 AU.

[brendala.livejournal.com]

*nodnod* That I totally agree with. It's just so bizarre in Sly 4 that the guys didn't care at ALL about what happened to Penelope despite the fact they did, you know BOND, in Sly 3.

And even if Penelope had been just some random chick Bentley hooked up with that Sly never met before, it's still wildly out of character for him to not give a damn! Sly showed more concern for Jing King's well-being in the third game than he showed for Penelope in the forth. And Jing was...
a) someone he never met
b) the daughter of someone who KILLED HIS PARENTS
c) not in any imminent danger of being killed. Granted, being forced into a marriage isn't much better than being threatened by a murderer. But at least Sly knew for a fact that Tsao had no intention of killing her.

So, yeah, even if Penelope wasn't his friend, it STILL should have bothered Sly that an innocent woman had potentially been kidnapped, hurt, threatened, and/or murdered because of him!


I'm thinking the last nail in the coffin would be Carmelia getting hurt because of clockwreck near the end of our 4 AU.

This is a really good idea! I picture that scene being similar to the final Doctor M fight in Sly 3:
Sly is overwhelmed, Carmelita jumps in to help him, and then gets hurt protecting him. And this prompts him to decide that, as much as he wants to be with her, she's better off without him.

[brendala.livejournal.com]

I'm thinking the last nail in the coffin would be Carmelia getting hurt because of clockwreck near the end of our 4 AU.

This idea inspired a new comic! Here's how I see our version of Sly 4 ending (or, more specifically, the last scene before Sly opts to save his parents)...




....it's not polished because I drew it while on the phone at work (also, I kicked ass in booking sales while I drew it!! ~_^). But, I'm pretty happy with how it looks.

I like the idea of Sly's "maybe she would love me" line foreshadowing how she ends up raising him in the AU timeline.

[earthstar-moon.livejournal.com]

This is good and I like the foreshadowing of Lucinda raising Sly in the AU timeline. Also, I like the expression you got on Sly's face. He would be rather broken at this point.

[brendala.livejournal.com]

Thanks!

I drew a bunch of new drawings for the AU. There were so many I just gave them their own post. I'd love to get yours and Stu's input on them!
Link: <http://brendala.livejournal.com/270292.html>