Legend of Korra: Finale review

[brendala]

Needless to say, thar be major spoilers under the cut. Don't read this if you haven't watched the finale already.


My thoughts on the Legend of Korra finale.....



The things I liked

-I'm glad my prediction about Asami turning evil because she lost access to Mako's penis turned out to be false. I kept waiting for it to happen and was pleasantly surprised to see her stand her ground against her father even when he had her backed against the wall and pulled the "AVENGE YOUR DEAD MOTHER" card. Go Asami!

-As usual with Avatar, the fight scenes were amazing and exciting.

-Iroh-2. I was afraid that hearing Dante Basco's distinctive voice come out of a different character would be distracting as hell. But it didn't take long for me to accept him as a completely new character. Kudos to Basco for a great performance and I'm sorry for doubting him.

-Tarlok and Amon/Noetok's story. I'm glad that Amon was a new character and not someone connected to the old gAang (a lot of fans were sure that Bumi-2 was Amon). Their story was tragic; but it was believable and it actually made me feel bad for both of them.
And I STILL can't believe that Nickelodeon allowed the writers to have Tarlok commit murder/suicide ON SCREEN! I was so not expecting that (especially after Amon/Noetok started tearing up and going on about starting a new life with his long lost brother). That scene was so damn powerful and I hope that the writers don't cheapen it by having Tarlok and/or Noetok survive the explosion and come back to menace Team Avatar in season two.

-Seeing Aang and all the former Avatars at the end. Not gonna lie, seeing adult Aang gave me the warm fuzzies. If he had asked Korra to say "hi" to his family for him, I might have bawled like a little girl



What I didn't like

-I still can't believe that my prediction about Amon's identity wasn't true. All the clues were there!!! XD






-Bolin who? He didn't really have much to do in the finale. This wouldn't bug me so much if it wasn't for the fact that he's been getting the shaft for the past 5 or so episodes because the writers wanted to make room for more nauseating romantic melodrama


-You knew this was coming...
The horrible, HORRIBLE romantic plot tumors. All the scenes where Mako and Korra interacted made me want to gag! And I'm not just saying this as a butthurt Korra/Someone-Else shipper. Their interactions were so sappy and OOC that they'd make a Disney princess puke.

Mako telling her "I can't imagine my life without you now, Korra" was especially nauseating because....
a) he's only known her for about 4 months, tops.
b) at that point, Asami was still his official girlfriend. Mako just decided one day to treat her like a nuisance and string her AND Korra along so he could have his cake and eat it too. And...
c) Mako wasn't characterized as overtly emotional until his romance with Korra was forced into the narrative. I could see Bolin telling a new girlfriend something overblown like that because he wears his heart on his sleeve 24/7. But Mako? No.

Speaking of Bolin, what happened to his affection for Korra? I know she broke his heart and all; but it doesn't make sense for him to go from being head over heels for her to not showing any concern/affection at all. A guy THAT emotional can't just turn those feelings off like a faucet. Especially when the girl in question faces danger and death every other day.


-Last but not least...
MAKO IS A F***KING DOUCHEBAG!!!
I now officially hate this character! He's worse than Rio from Jem and the Holograms (at least Rio wasn't technically cheating on his girlfriend). He shamelessly flirted with Korra in front of Asami (and Bolin) and the only time he showed Asami (aka HIS ACTUAL GIRLFRIEND!) any affection was the moment before they embarked on separate suicide missions. And then this little fucker runs out and declares his LOOOVE for Korra without even offering Asami the courtesy of a Dear John letter!? What a sleazy little man-whore!

I was also pissed that Mako was the only one to chase after Korra when she ran off crying at the end. Her parents were there. It would have made more sense for THEM to chase her out into the tundra instead of just standing in the igloo while a hormonal teenage boy chased their emotionally vulnerable daughter outside to "comfort" her with his tongue.

The Mako/Korra makeout at the end only served to make both Mako and Korra look like assholes. It was framed as ~*romantic*~; but those two were cheating behind Asami's back. After all the shit Asami went through in this show and all she sacrificed to help Korra and the brothers out, she deserved better than being cheated on and pushed aside for no reason.



FINAL VERDICT:
It's a shame that the Akira-esque romantic plot tumors dragged down this otherwise AMAZING show. It's not quite as bad as the-show-that-shall-not-be-named (mainly because it didn't spit on any beloved characters from previous shows), but it's still really aggravating.

This show would have been 1,000 times better if Korra had stayed single for the duration of the story. Not only would the narrative have flowed a lot nicer without the unnecessary melodrama. But it would have sent a positive message to the youngsters (mainly the girls) in the audience that you won't shrivel up and die if you hit your late teens without ever snagging a romantic partner. And leaving out the romantic melodrama in season one would have allowed the characters to develop and get to know each other. Thereby leaving romantic plots open for season two if it was greenlit (which it was). Sadly, shows about teenagers (especially teenage girls) are apparently required by law to have romance and love triangles shoe-horned in. So we just have to deal with it, I guess. :P


I'm not sure where the second season can go from here (this show's ending was clearly made by people who didn't expect to get a season two). My guess is that Korra may have to deal with the moral quandary of whether or not to restore everyone's bending (including the criminals) or make judgements about who deserves to have that power. And perhaps someone will try to take Amon's place as the leader of the non-benders who still believe in the cause despite Amon being a phony.

My hope is that season two starts with Asami kicking Mako in the balls for being a cheating douche and going off to live single and happy in her sweet mansion for many years to come.

Comments

[amelia-seyroon.livejournal.com]

Ugh, the Mako and Korra romance...just...why.

Poor Asami did absolutely NOTHING to deserve being shafted by both Mako and even Korra. I was awfully disappointed at the lack of any moments shared between Korra and Asami.

I loved that Asami stood up to her father towards the very end. You can tell she was struggling because even though he was a horrible father, he was still her father. I loved her quotes:

"You've lost all love for Mom, you were consumed by hatred. Mom would hate you for what you became."

To love each other after knowing knowing each other for just FOUR months?! How could Korra do that to her one and only female friend?

Her parents should have followed her outside, not just HIM.

Overall, I did enjoy the rest of the season finale, especially the backstory on Tarlok and Amon/Noetok's story. I felt especially bad for their mother. They said they hid the secret from her, but did she seriously suspect nothing?

Season two had better start with Asami and Korra bonding again. Screw Mako.

[brendala.livejournal.com]

Poor Asami did absolutely NOTHING to deserve being shafted by both Mako and even Korra. I was awfully disappointed at the lack of any moments shared between Korra and Asami.

THIS. I can't recall any moments in the show where the girls shared a proper conversation. Hell, I can't recall ANY exchange between them that wasn't tinged with cattyness.

A show with a female lead really should have made more of an effort to develop the relationship between the only two young female protagonists. The original Avatar was very much Aang's show. But it still took time to show varied female relationships that didn't center around a man (like Azula/Mai/Ty Lee, Suki & her warriors, Toph & Katara, etc). And the eventual romances didn't diminish those girls as characters at all.

The big saving grace of this finale was the fact that Asami didn't become a turncoat Dragon Lady just to justify Makorra like a lot of us feared she would. But the fact that she remained such a strong, moral character just made it all the more infuriating when Mako and Korra dismissed her entirely so they could make out in the snow. Even if Mako can't fight his ~*TWU LUV*~ for Korra, he at least owes Asami the courtesy of an explanation before he plays tonsil hockey with another girl (especially since Asami had been begging him for an honest conversation for DAYS now).

All the Mako/Korra romance did was make both Mako and Korra look like jerks. I wouldn't blame Asami if she never wanted to see either of them again.


Her parents should have followed her outside, not just HIM.

Another person who would have made more sense is Lin. I really wanted to see a scene where Lin coped with the loss of her bending (especially since my theory is that it's the one connection she shared with Toph). A scene where Lin comforts Korra and tells her that "I understand your pain. But losing one's bending isn't the end of the world" would have been WAY more powerful than a cliche love confession.

[amelia-seyroon.livejournal.com]

I can't recall any moments in the show where the girls shared a proper conversation. Hell, I can't recall ANY exchange between them that wasn't tinged with cattyness.

They ALMOST did in the episode previous to the finale. If Tenzin hadn't interrupted them, they COULD have had an actual heart-to-heart conversation.

I totally agree with you on Lin! She should have gone out there to comfort Korra, NOT Mako.

[brendala.livejournal.com]

That's another downside to the romance. Legend of Korra had very little time to work with compared to the original show. Romance should have been left out because it was virtually impossible to do it right when they only had 14 episodes to work with AND had to flesh out a complex, non-romantic main storyline. And all the time wasted on the melodrama could have been used to develop the platonic friendships and show important things like Lin coping with the loss of her bending before magically getting it back.


Season two would have been the perfect place to play with romance because the characters would be fully developed and it would give the writers someplace new to go with them.

I can't see what else can be done now that Mako/Korra are cemented as the OTP and Asami has been cast aside like yesterday's garbage. My guess is that they'll just toss her into the loving arms of Bolin and/or Iroh-2 and pretend that makes everything OK.

[earthstar-moon.livejournal.com]

Ug, the romance. It made my head hurt. @_@

Also, I thought it was WAY too easy and soon for Korra's bending to be restored. I'll admiitted, I squealed when Aang popped up, but still.. You need to be unhappy to reach a connection to the spirit world? How does that make sense, Aang was the most positive character in the show, and he was popping in and out of the spirit world all the time!

I read a rant on tumbler that pointed out that, you're not stronger when you hit you're lowest point, you're stronger when you climb out of it.

It would have been a good chance for Korra to realize she is more than just a bender/The Avatar. Season two could have been about Korra learning how to connect to the spirit world and restore her bending. ( The Rant ) Byrke needs to realize that HE CAN'T WRITE ROMANCE!! I hoping the reaction from this finale will finally open his eyes to that.

To be fair, I think they didn't realize they were getting a second season until they were halfway done season one. However, still with all that time they spent on the romance, they would have more room for story and character development. They had one whole episode developed just to the romance and that whole thing was awkward to watch

I did love the Bolin, Asami, Naga, Pabu, and Iroh team. I think they should just get their own spin off show because that was awesome to watch. I was so glad to see Asami get to face off her father, despite all the Mako problems she had to deal with.

[secondlina.livejournal.com]

The way the brought Aang in was brilliant. That I gotta say.

[earthstar-moon.livejournal.com]

That I did love, because that was something Aang would totally do. XD

[brendala.livejournal.com]

I never had problems with Bryke's romance writing before this show. I think the main problem is that there just wasn't enough time in LoK to properly develop ANY romance. The original show gave us 2 seasons to get to know Aang and his pals before it started hooking them up with each other in season 3. We barely met Korra and Mako before we were told "these two love each other because the plot says so. But first we need to throw in this hot chick as an obstacle because we don't want to make it too easy for them".

I think the fact that they never expected a season two makes the decision to cram in romance even worse! The pressure to make a follow up to one of the best TV shows ever made AND do it with only 14 episodes is enormous. They shouldn't have wasted the little time they had on nonsense like love triangles.

[dqbunny.livejournal.com]

Well, I started out commenting, but then it got so long that I wound up making my own post about it.

BTW, Amon was TOTALLY Red Herring. :P

[brendala.livejournal.com]

BTW, Amon was TOTALLY Red Herring. :P

I know, right! I still think Red was Amon/Noetok's stunt double or something! LOL

[secondlina.livejournal.com]

Yep, my biggest peeves with this series is definitely the weird pacing and the horrible romance. They could have kept it for season 2? Or you know, don't resolve it. Heck, they could have made Mako less of a douche, and have him realize it once the show is almost over, and instead of a kiss have a great friendship-potential-love-later ending. The romance was rushed.

[brendala.livejournal.com]

I really wanted to see Lin run out and talk to Korra. We never got to see Lin cope with losing her bending. And it would have been great to see Lin talk to Korra and say something like "bending doesn't define you as a human being. And losing it isn't the end of the world". Seeing that before Aang showed up would have been nice and may have helped make the ending seem like less of a deus ex machina.

[the-tox.livejournal.com]

(ninja hi)

I very much agree. Mako is a jerk, Korra should have known better (I was glad when she initially didn't answer his forced "I love you"). And she should have stayed single. The romance drama was poorly handed and unnecessary. Ugh.

Poor Asami.

(ninja bye)

[rezo-eris.livejournal.com]

I really don't think Mako's the terrible person everyone is now making him out to be: he's just making really dumb moves because he has a serious White Knight Complex when it comes to love. The problem is with the narrative not adressing these problems and seeing him learn from them. Seeing as this is the total opposite of Zuko from the previous show, that is a huge disapointment.

I also think Mako and Asami DID break up in this finale before he got with Korra and declared his love and kissed and all that: it just wasn't made very clear. But I think that "I'm sorry things got so messed up, but I still care about you" from Mako followed by "I care about you too" and a kiss on the cheek (not the lips) from Asami was supposed to be it. I dunno, it should've been written better. If they were going to have Mako be the one to follow Korra out, couldn't they have worked in Asami just giving him the nod to go to her once he did his little side glance before heading out of the tent. Just one shot? That would've made it alot better.

Lastly, must you work in a potshot at the-show-that-shall-not-be-named in so many of your entries? Seriously, let it go. XD

[brendala.livejournal.com]

The break up is something that really should have happened on screen. All the audience gets to see is Mako stringing them both along, dodging Asami's questions about his feelings for Korra, and shamelessly throwing himself at Korra in front of Asami.
Yeah, it's possible that the break up happened off screen. But since we didn't see it, Mako just ends up looking like a cheating douche.


Lastly, must you work in a potshot at the-show-that-shall-not-be-named in so many of your entries? Seriously, let it go. XD

At this point, it's more of a running joke than a vendetta (that's why I use the goofy Voldemort moniker). And joking about it makes me feel better. XD

[rezo-eris.livejournal.com]

EXACTLY. Because Mako didn't adress and face his relationship problems like a man and sort everything out, we're just left will him telling Asami "Sorry about being a cheating douche, but I care about you" and then proceeding to hook up with Korra like there's no big deal, and we're left unclear whether or not he's still with Asami by the end. If so, then it gives off the message that cheating on your girlfriend is good if she's not your "destined twue wuv soulmate" and you will suffer no reprecussions if you do. That's REALLY bad, especially seeing as it was uncertain that this show would get a second season. But I'm SO glad it is, 'cause it means it's possible the Makorra relationship might not work out and Mako will have to pay the price for what he's done. Hopefully afterwards, we can finally forgive the schmuck.

Yeah, I can see that now. (I've been keeping up with said show, and AT THE VERY LEAST, they finally give Velma's character something that DOESN'T relate to her drama with Shaggy and Scooby as of the second episode. Now all that needs to be done is to never freaking talk about that romantic drama ever again, but I'm not getting my hopes up...)

[brendala.livejournal.com]

I'm also hoping that season two has Mako (and, to a lesser extent, Korra) face some consequences for sucking face behind Asami's back. I seriously doubt they'll have Mako and Korra break up (at least not permanently); but they should at least have them take a break and/or experience some guilt for what they did.


I haven't been following season two (I didn't want to waste time following something I knew was likely to piss me off). But the curiosity is getting to me...what new character trait has replaced "whining about her love life" in MI-Velma's life?

[rezo-eris.livejournal.com]

Well as I said, this was concieved as a mini-series at the start, so that may be why the had Korra and Mako forcibly get together at the end. Now that there's a second season, breaking up due to something. After all, Katara and Aang didn't hook up in Season One. And hopefully this will come with some real guilt from Mako and some more...bonding between Korra and Asami, too.

Pretty much taking mysterious orders from Mr E. and going on missions along side Marcy/Hotdog Water, who she's now REALLY good friends with. It's actually pretty sweet.

Daphne, however, still hasn't quite gotten over her issues (OF COURSE the Crybaby Clown was Baylor Hotner! Gah, that convieniant bit of bad writing pissed me off.) But to be fair, Fred's just as fixated on her as she is with him. (I never saw MI Fred as a jerk like you seem to, but there was one great moment where he started to actually be a jerk about Daphne at the expense of Hotdog Water, who was filling in for her at the time, and she gave him a "what the hell?" glare that shut him up good!)

Oh, and we're seeing Ricky/Mr E. a whole lot more, and Professor Pericles has recently resurfaced. Huzzah, the one character in the show that I have no problems with whatsoever is back! ^_^

[brendala.livejournal.com]

Glad to know MI-Velma isn't humping MI-Shaggy's leg anymore. However, I still think that, if they wanted to make a crazy teen melodrama, they should have just made a new show with new characters instead of bastardizing beloved American icons. Say what you will about Stephanie Meyer, but at least she never ruined other people's characters with her crappy books (that's the reason the heavy-handed Twilight snark in MI annoys me. It's hella hypocritical on the parts of the writers).

Anyhoo, different strokes and all that. It's cool if you like it. I just can't understand why. LOL

[rezo-eris.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I don't think I'll ever understand why they decided to do the crazy teen melodrama in the first place. When it first starting coming up, I almost thought they were parodying that kind of soap opera stuff, because how can one possibly take Scooby freaking Doo going "Are you CHEATING ON ME?" seriously. But the tone of the show just made it hard to tell, and the more it went on, it became clear that they were dead set on telling this romantic drama and sacrficing the characters in order to do it. And that really did hamper my enjoyment of the show.

Now it got *somewhat* better in the second half of last season where Velma recieved her role with keeping Cassidy William's secret and rightfully turned Shaggy down when HE attempted to come crawling back to HER, but she still whined about the whole "choosing the dog over me!" thing way more than was nessecary. That subplot was over, so DROP IT. And I never really had as big an issue with the Fred/Daphne angle, but when he asked her to marry him....uuuh, that's a bit much considering you're still young, don't you think?

And I can see why you wouldn't like it. If you grew up on the old Scooby and the old characters, and are particularly fond of Velma, than this show is just NOT for you. I was never a *big* Scooby Doo fan (I enjoyed "Where Are You?", "A Pup Named", "What's New?" and the first live action movie, but that's it) so when a show actually dares to do something radically different with the concept than just a bunch of kids and their talking dog solving mysteries by chasing down people in scary costumes, it gets my interest even if I don't always agree with the end result. Just the fact that it's so different is what makes me keeps me watching and ultimately enjoying it, though more for the dark Crystal Cove mystery storyline rather than the stupid romance subplot. I may be able to notice it's flaws and problems (again, except for Pericles, who can do no wrong 'cause they did SO well in making him genuinely creepy) but I still like the show regardless.

It's cool that you're cool with my opinions too. That's why I enjoy talking to you: you can actually give me a mature conversation. XD

[brendala.livejournal.com]

The "Are you cheating on me?" line literally made me gag when I heard it. Just...ugh. >_<  

The disjointed tone is part of what makes the show so frustrating. It constantly jumps between extreme wackyness...
(for example: Scooby going to school and being treated like a human by the town. Fred's trap fetish. The goofy crooks and motives. Tons of sentient, talking animals housed in an asylum like it's no big thing. etc)
...and super serious melodrama...
(example: the angst. the "romance". Velma's implied body image issues. Hatred and rivalries within the group. Unhealthy/abusive family situations. Sexual implications. etc).

The writers really should have settled on a tone and stuck with it. Because it's hard to laugh at stuff like Fred's unhinged trap obsession when it's played totally seriously (and therefore comes across more like an undiagnosed mental illness than a silly character quirk).


...and rightfully turned Shaggy down when HE attempted to come crawling back to HER, but she still whined about the whole "choosing the dog over me!" thing way more than was nessecary

I'd be a little more forgiving of this show if they had allowed Velma to regain her dignity and tell Shaggy "I still care about you. But I think we're better off as friends right now". But then they had Velma continue to whine about being "dumped for a dog". It didn't make sense! If she still wanted the relationship back (and Scooby wasn't being a violent ass toward her anymore), why DIDN'T she get back with him when he appeared to have a genuine change of heart!? Just to spite him and hurt him like he hurt her? That twist just made her come across as vindictive and bi-polar.


If you grew up on the old Scooby and the old characters, and are particularly fond of Velma, than this show is just NOT for you

Velma was a character that I heavily identified with since I was a kid. Like teenage-me, she's an offbeat-looking short nerd who doesn't care what anyone else thinks of her. So, yeah, the fact that MI decided that she should be defined by her unhealthy infatuation with a douchebag instead of her intelligence offended me deeply. Very few characters like Velma (i.e. leading ladies who are NOT conventionally attractive and define themselves by their intelligence) exist. And they decided to ruin a great role model by turning her into a self-loathing Bella Swan.
That's the reason I have a hard time just ignoring this show like I do the Scrappy seasons and other "bad" Scooby incarnations. I can't help thinking about all the little girls who are just like I was as a child getting exposed to MI-Velma first instead of her more positive incarnations.

I'm also attached to the Scooby canons that characterize Velma and Scooby as BFFs (mainly because it feeds my inner Shaggy/Velma shipper). So watching Scooby physically attack her in that Ren Faire episode made me want to scream!

Also, maybe my anger has clouded my brain, but I think that the ongoing Crystal Cove mystery is horribly done. It's full of plot holes and shit that just doesn't make sense (like why would smart, powerful people like Mr E and Pericles need the aid of a bunch of dumb, hormonal teenagers to solve a 20 year old mystery? Did they just sit on their hands doing nothing until the Scooby gang decided to play Hardy Boys? What would they have done if those kids had decided to devote their lives to some other hobby like competitive bowling or whatever?)


I'm enjoying the discussion, too. It's fun to discover other fangirls who can disagree and debate amicably! ^_^

[rezo-eris.livejournal.com]

Same here with that "cheating on me?" line. I was like "Guys, it's SCOOBY FREAKING DOO!"

As of the second Season 2 episode, Scooby got a "bromantic" line that actually did make me laugh 'cause it was played totally for laughs. Shaggy's unconciouss, Scooby goes "Rhaaaaaggggyy!" and then melodramatically tells the gang "Stay back! He's my Rhaggy: I'll be the one to bury him!", at which Shaggy regains concioussness, Scooby hugs him in relief, and everyone's like "Oh, okay. Glad that turned out well." Now THAT'S how you do it without going overly romantic and melodramatic. XD

I thought Fred's trap fetish WAS a silly character quirk. When was it ever played totally seriously? If you think it's an undiagnosed mental illness, then you're looking too much into things.

Oh yeah, exactly. The show should've made it more clear that she just didn't want anything to do with him in THAT way anymore after all the drama that had happened in the first half, and also stop MENTIONING her being dumped for a dog, period! It was never good to begin with, so why can't we just move the f**k on from it, MI writers?

Unhealthy infatuation, I get. Douchebag...not so much. What did MI Shaggy do to make you think of him that way? MI Scooby was a douche, but why Shaggy? And thankfully, last I checked, "What's New, Scooby Doo?" and many Scooby Doo movies still ran on Cartoon Network, so it's not like MI Velma is going to be the only Velma that kids these days will be growing up with.

I'm forgetting: did he really physically attack her or just raise his fist at her as if he would? Either way, it was totally uncalled for, especially for Scooby Doo.

You've said this before, and alot of the things you deemed "plot holes" were things that were unanswered up to that point. They could all very well get explained in this season, which is supposedly going to end the story. As for your example: well, Pericles was locked up in the animal asylum, remember? What could he do to solve the mystery in those 20 years? And as for Ricky...he may be powerful, but he's...not really as smart as he makes himself to be. His showings in the current season kind of make him come across as a demanding whiner rather than a true mastermind. Remember, he WAS the Shaggy of his group after all.

Actually, I'm a fanBOY you're debating with. Is that uncommon on LJ or something? ^_^

[brendala.livejournal.com]

As of the second Season 2 episode, Scooby got a "bromantic" line that actually did make me laugh 'cause it was played totally for laughs...

See, that line isn't bad. It comes off as something a brother would say (and Shag and Scooby are essentially brothers) instead of a jealous housewife.


I thought Fred's trap fetish WAS a silly character quirk. When was it ever played totally seriously?

What I meant to say is that the overall show has a serious tone (for example, they try to explain the trap thing as psychological fallout from being "abandoned" by his mother). And when the show takes EVERYTHING so seriously and melodramatically, stuff that would be a light-hearted character quirk in another Scooby incarnation comes across as disturbing in MI.


If you think it's an undiagnosed mental illness, then you're looking too much into things.

Normally, I would agree that it's stupid to over think a Scooby Doo plot. However, MI purports itself to be a darker, more complex, and more "adult" take on Scooby Doo. So I think it's only natural to put it under more anal fan scrutiny than, say, What's New Scooby Doo (a show that had no pretensions about being anything other than silly, stupid fun).


Unhealthy infatuation, I get. Douchebag...not so much.

Because he treated Velma like something to be ashamed of from the moment they hooked up, contributed to the Scooby/Velma rivalry by insisting on keeping him in the dark against Velma's wishes until the shit hit the fan, and strung Velma along for months instead of telling her he wasn't interested and making a clean break.
I know, all of the above can be chalked up to cowardice and/or arm-twisting from Velma. However, the main reason I think MI-Shaggy is a douche is his behavior in the Mai-Lee episode. He knew Velma was still hurt from the break up. But he STILL decided to hump the leg of one of Velma's friends right in front of her (and Scooby). Velma even acted like an adult and politely told him "Hey dude. It's cool if you want to date. Just please don't hit on my friends" and he still pursued Mai-Lee without even trying to be discreet about it. That is total douche behavior and the ONE time where Velma would have been completely justified in acting like a vindictive bitch (so, of course, that was one of the few times she decided not to :P)

long ass rant is long....

[brendala.livejournal.com]

I'm forgetting: did he really physically attack her or just raise his fist at her as if he would? Either way, it was totally uncalled for, especially for Scooby Doo.

In the Ren Faire ep, he growled at Velma when she was holding Shaggy's parrot doll and crying about Shaggy being kidnapped. Scooby then lunged at her and pulled the doll out of her hands with his teeth. When she tried to talk to him later, he leaned toward her and growled. And her body language made it clear that she was afraid of him...

...and this scene is even more disturbing because she had done NOTHING to provoke him and Scooby had been showing genuine malice toward her for the past few episodes for something that technically wasn't her fault (ie Shaggy lying to him about their relationship).

That scene was the first time in all my years watching Scooby stuff that I stopped and realized "Oh yeah. Scooby is a huge fucking dog that could easily kill any one of those kids in seconds if he wanted to. Especially a tiny girl like Velma".
Part of the reason Scooby has endured as a beloved, iconic character is because of the "cowardly gentle giant" schtick. That was completely ruined when this scene had him not only physically threaten someone without provocation, but physically threaten a tiny, helpless, crying girl who also happens to be a member of his team (and his master's girlfriend)!
Let me put it this way: Would it have been funny if Shaggy had raised his hand to her and/or threatened to slap her if she kept nagging him? Of course not! Because it goes against his character, it's cruel, it's too disturbing for a kids show, and it just isn't funny to watch a large male threaten a smaller weaker woman for no reason (ESPECIALLY when said male is a character beloved by toddlers the world over).


You've said this before, and alot of the things you deemed "plot holes" were things that were unanswered up to that point. They could all very well get explained in this season, which is supposedly going to end the story.

There was just a lot of crap that made no logical sense and I can't see how ANYTHING season two pulls out of it's ass can fix that. I'd go on, but I already ranted about it here.


Actually, I'm a fanBOY you're debating with. Is that uncommon on LJ or something? ^_^

This site is overwhelmingly female (at least as far as I've noticed) and you have a gender-neutral LJ handle. So I just assumed you were a girl. My bad! ^_^;

Re: long ass rant is long....

[rezo-eris.livejournal.com]

I must have missed when his trap fetish was explained as being psychological. To me, it does come off as fun and silly of Fred. And has it ever been said by the creators that MI is "dark, mature, and adult?" It's certianly dark, but has too much immature teen angst to be considered "mature", and it's too silly to be "adult". In the end, it's still a kids' cartoon show about meddling kids and their pesky dog solving spooky mysteries that airs on Cartoon Network.

Maybe Shaggy was "ashamed" because he knew deep down that he wasn't ready to pursue such a relationship with a friend, and 'cause MI Velma was a bossy b**** who wanted him to change everything about himself for her pleasure. How he handled the rest WAS just cowardice and human error. The Mai-Lee episode...yeah, he was a total douche in that episode. But it was just once, so I forgave him and moved on.

Yeah, that's what I thought. I can forgive MI Shaggy for his douchiness, but I don't think I can ever completely forgive MI Scooby for that moment. Which sucks because I like the idea that MI is making Scooby Doo, the titular character, have more invovlvement then just being the team mascot. They really, REEEEALLY didn't have to bastardize his personality like that!

I'd like to debate MI plot issues with you, but maybe in private messages rather than here: this was supposed to be about the Korra season finale after all. XD

Re: long ass rant is long....

[brendala.livejournal.com]

I'd like to debate MI plot issues with you, but maybe in private messages rather than here: this was supposed to be about the Korra season finale after all. XD

I'm sure you don't care about this anymore, but what the hell...

I don't care if this thread gets derailed because it's MY journal and I can start off-topic tangents if I want to!! LOL
Also, it's just easier for me to have the whole discussion in one place. That way I don't lose track and forget about it (again). Believe it or not, it is interesting to discuss this show with smart people who actually like it and aren't blinded by "nostalgic rage goggles" like I am.


Season Two reveals that Brad and Judy at least DID figure out that Fred Jones Sr. was the Freak, but he threatened to do their son bodily harm if they attempted to expose him and take their son back. Which is why he saved Fred's life in the season finale: he was the only leverage he had over Brad and Judy.

I don't get why they left their kid in Crystal Cove to begin with. If the city is so dangerous, why wouldn't they either keep him or leave him with someone who doesn't reside in Ground Zero?

My guess is that his bio parents will turn out to be villains and The Mayor will redeem himself somehow simply because that's the only way I can see the writers justifying why MI-Fred would choose to keep sharing the same name as a guy who stole him from his real family and ruined the lives of 4 innocent teenagers.


I'm not touching the sexism/anti-feminism issue because I know that's a HUGE red button for you. All I can say is that I don't think any of that was intentional on the writers' part. Call them talentless, shitty writers for it if you must, but that's how I see it. Personally, I do my best to not let such stuff bother me because I enjoy so many other aspects of the show so much more.

I never said the writers themselves are sexist pigs. In fact, I made it clear in my "fridging" essay that I cannot make that judgement about men that I don't know personally. It just bothers me that a bunch of writers and artists who have done good work on other shows could screw up this franchise so badly. Especially since the basic concept behind MI (ie the gang lives in a "haunted" tourist trap and that's why the town's crooks use goofy costumes) was really brilliant and the show was fantastic before the romantic plot tumors metastasized.

I think that's why this show gets to me more than all the other "bad" Scooby shows/movies. It had the potential to really invigorate the characters and take them back to their roots. But instead it opted to give us a generic teen romance drama with Scooby characters and a mystery plot awkwardly thrown in.

Re: long ass rant is long....

[rezo-eris.livejournal.com]

Continue here? Works for me! XD

''Believe it or not, it is interesting to discuss this show with smart people who actually like it and aren't blinded by "nostalgic rage goggles" like I am.''

LOL Yeah, I don't have THAT much heavy nostalgia for "Scooby Doo" so that could be why, but I can understand the rage at what the MI team does to the characters so often. It irritates the heck out of me too, but I try to keep my focus on the positive things, y'know?

''I don't get why they left their kid in Crystal Cove to begin with. If the city is so dangerous, why wouldn't they either keep him or leave him with someone who doesn't reside in Ground Zero?''

Because he had to grow up to be Fred Jones of Scooby Doo? XD I dunno, maybe I have to go back and watch in order to get this one.

''My guess is that his bio parents will turn out to be villains and The Mayor will redeem himself somehow simply because that's the only way I can see the writers justifying why MI-Fred would choose to keep sharing the same name as a guy who stole him from his real family and ruined the lives of 4 innocent teenagers.''

WHAT? That...would be really, REALLY lame. Brad and Judy were last seen hanging with Pericles (along with the rest of the original Mystery Inc.), but they seem like good people who really love their son. As opposed to Mayor Jones, who's a self-centered monster who never really showed any unconditional love towards Fred, not even when saving his life because Fred's well being was his leverage over Brad and Judy in the first place. I just can't see HIM turning good, let alone turning into a better parent than Fred's real ones. Hell, I'm not sure we'll even be seeing Jones again at this point. As for why Fred would keep his name...that's what his friends know him as. THEY don't care that it's the same name as that dirtbag mayor: he'll always be "Fred" or "Freddy" to them. If this is ever brought up, it could actually be a good way to demonstrate the true friendship between the gang that has been lacking in this show.

"I never said the writers themselves are sexist pigs. In fact, I made it clear in my "fridging" essay that I cannot make that judgement about men that I don't know personally. It just bothers me that a bunch of writers and artists who have done good work on other shows could screw up this franchise so badly. Especially since the basic concept behind MI (ie the gang lives in a "haunted" tourist trap and that's why the town's crooks use goofy costumes) was really brilliant and the show was fantastic before the romantic plot tumors metastasized."

See, I differ from you here because I thought that (whenever they weren't referencing the Shaggy/Scooby/Velma drama that should've died or Fred and Daphne weren't wanting marriage and sex from each other) the romantic plot tumors died down a little during the show's second half. We had "Mystery Solvers Club State Finals", "Escape From Mystery Manor", "NightFright", "Menace Of The Manticore", "Attack Of The Headless Horror", "A Haunting In Crystal Cove", "Dead Justice", and the entire season finale as episodes with the regular characters and mystery plots at the forefront. And even an episode like "Where Walks Aphrodite", which revolved around a LOVE SPELL, didn't bother me (but probably because Pericles was in it. XD) Season 2 seems to be continuing at this trend and quality.

''I think that's why this show gets to me more than all the other "bad" Scooby shows/movies. It had the potential to really invigorate the characters and take them back to their roots. But instead it opted to give us a generic teen romance drama with Scooby characters and a mystery plot awkwardly thrown in.''

Again, this might be why I look at its' positives more. I'll always believe that it would've been a truly great Scooby reboot show had they not made the choices they did with teen romance drama and contrived plot points in the mystery, but the stuff they get right, to me, are done REALLY WELL. That's just the way I see it.

Re: long ass rant is long....

[brendala.livejournal.com]

As for why Fred would keep his name...that's what his friends know him as. THEY don't care that it's the same name as that dirtbag mayor: he'll always be "Fred" or "Freddy" to them. If this is ever brought up, it could actually be a good way to demonstrate the true friendship between the gang that has been lacking in this show.

Maybe. But it still seems odd that he wouldn't at least be curious about what his parents named him (wouldn't you be in that situation?). And you'd think Brad and Judy would want their son to carry THEIR name instead of the name of the asshole who ruined their lives. And it's not like his friends wouldn't understand if he opted to change his name.

Anyhoo, that theory just sprung up because I figured that the show would try to explain why Fred wouldn't change his name upon finding out the truth. I'm guessing that the name subject was just ignored in season two even after Brad and Judy showed up?

And I agree that the episodes that ignored the romantic side plots were quite good. That's why I think it's a shame that MI didn't go for a straight reboot instead of a soap opera with a crazy underlying storyline. It would have been cool if all the episodes played out like the "filler episodes" did.


but the stuff they get right, to me, are done REALLY WELL. That's just the way I see it.

I agree that the show does a lot of things right. The artwork is gorgeous (even if the character designs aren't that stellar) and I liked how they made a lot of the chases and monsters genuinely scary. That's why I kept watching the show even after it became clear that it wasn't for me. I REALLY wanted to love it and look past the flaws (and my inner shipper wanted to see if Shaggy/Velma could be salvaged); but it just kept pissing me off and summoning my inner bra-burner.

I guess I should give them props for trying something radically different with a stagnant franchise (after all, I'm one of the few people who thought "Get A Clue" wasn't an abomination). But changing the characters that radically just took it too far.

Re: long ass rant is long....

[rezo-eris.livejournal.com]

''And you'd think Brad and Judy would want their son to carry THEIR name instead of the name of the asshole who ruined their lives. And it's not like his friends wouldn't understand if he opted to change his name.''

I'm not sure about his first name, but he could always just change his last name to Chiles. And maybe he can have a new first name too, but he'll still be "Fred" to his friends and everyone else.

''I'm guessing that the name subject was just ignored in season two even after Brad and Judy showed up?''

I'm forgetting at the moment.

''And I agree that the episodes that ignored the romantic side plots were quite good. That's why I think it's a shame that MI didn't go for a straight reboot instead of a soap opera with a crazy underlying storyline. It would have been cool if all the episodes played out like the "filler episodes" did.''

Again, I'd rather they just get rid of the soap opera aspect and keep the underlying mystery. Without all the extra baggage, they could've focused more of their creative energy on that story and made sure it came out less contrived at points.

''I agree that the show does a lot of things right. The artwork is gorgeous (even if the character designs aren't that stellar) and I liked how they made a lot of the chases and monsters genuinely scary. That's why I kept watching the show even after it became clear that it wasn't for me. I REALLY wanted to love it and look past the flaws (and my inner shipper wanted to see if Shaggy/Velma could be salvaged); but it just kept pissing me off and summoning my inner bra-burner.''

Well, that's why I'm glad I don't have an inner bra-burner! XD

''I guess I should give them props for trying something radically different with a stagnant franchise (after all, I'm one of the few people who thought "Get A Clue" wasn't an abomination). But changing the characters that radically just took it too far.''

(Maybe not an abomination, but "Get A Clue" was pretty awful. I couldn't even get past Scott Menville's voice for Shaggy, it was so annoying). Well, it's not like the characters had much depth to begin with: it's always been Scooby's the team mascot, Shaggy's the cowardly glutton, Fred is the somewhat oafish team leader, Daphne is the fashionable chick, and Velma's the smart girl. In this show, I like what's been done with Fred and Daphne (when they're not pining over each other) and Shaggy, but there was really no excuse for making Velma less of smart girl and more of a Bella Swan-type person, and how they managed to drop the ball on making Scooby more than the team mascot is beyond me. I'll keep watching Season 2 hoping that these two can be salvaged, but I doubt it: some damage can just never be undone.

Re: long ass rant is long....

[brendala.livejournal.com]

P.S. Love the Myotismon icon. YAY old school Digimon!!!

Re: long ass rant is long....

[rezo-eris.livejournal.com]

Yeah, and he was the best old school Digimon villain.

But now I shall torment you with a Shirley Fennes icon. Mwahahaha! (Yes, I know damn well how you feel about her, but I actually like the little b****. Go figure. XD)

Re: long ass rant is long....

[brendala.livejournal.com]

Meh. I didn't like anyone in that game. Shirley is just my favorite punching bag. Honestly, the whole storyline where the dude who killed Chloe's parents is given a free pass pisses me off WAY more than Shirley's silly psychotic meltdown.

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[rezo-eris.livejournal.com]

I liked most of the main cast, actually. (Just wasn't a big fan of Senel, Chloe, or Will). Shirley's everyone's favorite punching bag, and I actually think that's part of why I like her so much. But yeah, let's not get into THAT here. It can derail some other thread some other day. XD